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Re: Censorship alive and well on frameusers

On 11/21/05, Jeremy H. Griffith <jeremy@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 21:03:15 -0500, Art Campbell
> <art.campbell@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >As much as I admire your spirit... framers is a privately owned commercial
> >list, and the owners are the owners.
> WRONG, Wrong, wrong!  It is not, never has been, and never
> will be, any more than the ANWR is owned by the oil companies.
> The original framers was a community list that predated the
> takeover by Brad by many years; I was on it back when it was
> hosted on uunet.  Brad did not buy the list, because there
> was no-one to buy it from.  The *only* other way one can own
> a list is to start it from scratch, asking people to opt-in.
> Brad never did that.  Ergo, he never owned it.  Simple truth.

In theory I agree. I was on hte uunet list too. However, the theory
ain't the reality. The "other list" is operated under the  "possession
is 9/10ths of the law," maxim. And if it actually came to a court
case, they'd have a solid case for ownership.

> >As they say in the US (well, some of us say):
> >"Freedom of the press is guaranteed only to those who own one."
> >A. J. Liebling
> Fortunately, the Web has changed that again.  ;-)
> >And censorship works very well; your message wouldn't have gotten through
> >if there hadn't been another "press" available. (Thanks, Jeremy!)
> Which is why there is another press, and always will be, one
> that will *never* be commercial.  I don't "own" it, the whole
> community does; I'm the current listadmin, that's all.  If I
> no longer want to run it, or if enough members want someone
> else to do that (as a volunteer), I'll pass it on cheerfully.
> >And Mailman... I think it's a great little program. Open source. Free.
> >Maybe the archiving isn't as good as Yahoo's, but you don't have the
> >penalty of having your address broadcast either.
> <sigh>  A few years ago I thought it looked good, too, and
> tried to move Free Framers to it.  No good.  It just won't
> scale; a couple hundred users strains it, and I have no
> idea how Lisa can manage with the frameusers list on it.
> The trouble is, it's written in interpreted Python...  So
> far, I've found no real working substitute for majordomo,
> and I'd dearly love to find one...

Probably time to look at it again, Jeremy. I'm helping run a
three-list Mailman server that's running 1300, 700, & 350 member lists
without breaking a sweat. And a separate install of another list
that's >300 members. No problems.

And because of the user interface, the user accounts are largely
self-maintaining. ;- )


Art Campbell                                             art.campbell@xxxxxxxxx
  "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent
               and a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson
                             No disclaimers apply.
                                     DoD 358

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