Re: More about the Bradframers outage phenomenom

[jeremy@xxxxxxxxx (Jeremy H. Griffith)]

On Tue, 09 Nov 1999 14:15:37 -0600, Rian Murphy <rmurphy@openport.com> wrote:

>Dan:
>Why don't you run your list, and let Brad run his?

First of all, get your facts straight.  Dan is not the listowner.
I am.  Dan does not run any list; he merely expresses his opinions
on this one, just like anyone else can, including you.

>The principle behind these listservs is that people cooperate to exchange
>information and solve problems.  

Correct.

>This is not a competition: people are free
>to subscribe to your list as well as Brad's.  I have not paid a cent to
>receive messages from Brad's list, nor have I been asked to; Brad has never
>urged me to unsubscribe from your list.  To me, it looks like the only
>"fiefdom" in this whole situation is the one you seem to want to establish
>for yourself.

I don't really want to go into past issues here.  Suffice it to
say that Brad's list management style is more hands-on (including
content-based censorship) than some of us consider appropriate 
for a public list.

>Brad's problems are no business of yours.  If you were really committed to
>the free exchange of information, in the spirit of newsgroups in general,
>you would offer to help, 

As a matter of fact, I *have* offered.  Several times now.  We are
perfectly willing to provide backup for Brad on our servers, using
proven open-source list software (majordomo).

>not report obsessively about the other list's
>problems, or sound off as if Brad were trying to sabotage Frame users, or you.
>
>Why are you so intent on getting people to use your service exclusively?  Do
>you have a switch to some kind of fee-based service waiting in the wings?

Now that's getting insulting.  We *do* have a no-personal-attacks
rule here, just like every other technical list.  Please observe it.

>Or are you looking for other people validate your own "rebellion"?
>
>If you ask me, your list has not been "running trouble-free" for the past
>year, or whatever; its subscribers are subject to periodic blasts of
>unproductive noise, in the form of these rants about Brad's list.

The volume of Dan's posts on this issue, which he certainly has the
right to make according to normal Net rules, has not been high.  Use
your delete key if you don't wish to read them.

>Bashing Brad is a waste of time.  It's bad enough that you waste your own;
>but by disseminating these reports on your list, you waste everybody else's
>time as well.  Get back to work.  I am going to now.

Glad to hear it.  Bashing Dan is even *more* of a waste of time.  This
bash is many times longer than Dan's, if you really care about bandwidth.
Enough said.  Play nice, now.

-- Jeremy H. Griffith, the real Listowner of framers@omsys.com


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