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RE: Censorship alive and well on frameusers

Being among the newest members here, I am largely unaware of the history or politics of this list and - quite honestly - don't care to know much more. Please excuse my ignorance of any details.

The aspect of the current situation that alarms me is that of censorship. What types of inappropriate postings do the moderators seek to suppress? Because as members of a forum such as this, we should all be pretty familiar with the delete key. Therefore, unless the list is getting spammed with p*rn or sales pitches, I think "moderation" here is entirely undesirable because it is misaligned with the fundamental nature of information sharing.

I would like to hear the frank answer of the moderator. If the answer is "politics" or "personal gain" that's fine...just be up front about it so we can all tune our expectations.

Note: I don't even think the moderator needs to remove spam. The delete key works pretty well on that, too. As does a nice Bayesian filter.

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-framers@xxxxxxxxx [mailto:owner-framers@xxxxxxxxx]On Behalf
Of Bill Briggs
Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 2:20 PM
To: framers@xxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Censorship alive and well on frameusers

At 7:37 PM +0100 11/22/05, Thomas Michanek wrote:
>To a certain degree, I can agree with Bill that maybe the messages
>in this topic are a bit premature. Maybe things simply haven't
>settled down yet, and things will improve.
>On the other hand, the concerns raised are very much valid.
>Needless to say, I won't consider re-subscribing to FrameUsers
>until Lisa adress them somehow.
>And Bill, don't you think it's odd that the *only* message in
>this thread that apparently made it through to the FrameUsers
>list (according to the new archive) is your own, which just
>happens to be the message with no criticism? Or could you
>confirm that the other five messages were actually posted
>to FrameUsers?

 I can confirm that it was the only one posted on the FU list.

 This business of being the "owner" of a list is a bit much. I was on the framers list back when Phong ran the list, and he considered himself as a volunteer doing the work for the community. Which is how it should be. When there were issues we decided as a group. I recall that the issue of posting job ads came up, and I drafted the first job posting protocol for the list, which with some small modifications was agreed to by the list denizens and that's what we stuck to. Those who violated (generally because they were too new to the list to have seen the protocol) were informed and then everything went smoothly.

 The thrill of power and control that seems to infect some list "owners" really is annoying. I got kicked off of a Eudora list once for answering a post that was off topic. They let the poster post the OT question (which was technical, so what's the big deal), and I answered it. Got a terse warning from one of the list moms, who I replied to off list and referred to as a "list Nazis". The thin-skinned twerp banned me from the list. Interestingly, just like Jeremy did when Brad took over framers, because of these control freaks someone set up a new Eudora list, which continues to run years later, and which has no enforced policing of any description.  We already have too many politicians who have forgotten the notion of "public service" and turned it into "self service" or "crony service". We don't need it happening in this sphere too.

- web

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