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Enough Already! RE: Regarding the law: RE: Copyright in email postings

Enough Already! On both lists!
I'm probably going to get blasted for this but:

If you don't like Brad's new policies, then join FreeFramers and unsub from
Brad assumes the cost for the equipment and time required for the FrameUsers
list. He wants to recoup some costs. Good for him that's his choice.

Jeremy runs a list and assumes all the costs on his own.  Good for him that's
his choice.
For some of the other issues that have been raised:

Hedley, as far as copyright goes, good luck. If the framers FAQ is somehow in
contravention then thousands of other FAQs are as well. Try and prove that a
Framers post contributed to the FAQ or to the production of a Frame book. Don't
tell me that some of the knowledge in the (at least) two books published by
Framers wasn't gleaned from lurking and interacting on the list. It's already
been mentioned as 'compilation copyright' but I'd go with the old maxim: "Copy
one person it's plagiarism, copy many it's research."

Dimitry, while you have strong convictions, ads are neither pure evil, nor are
they illegal. If you sign up to receive them, their transmission to your country
is your fault and not the list's fault. Much like if you subscribe to the New
York Times. The New York Times wouldn't have to care less about advertising law
in Russia. You'd have to worry about Russian import laws. Also, the power
required for the lists is exponentially greater than a 500 dollar computer and a
connection to the Internet. The university IT labs that used to be the support
for all the traffic on Usenet and email lists will no longer foot the bill and
give away the resources and only a commercial connection will allow you to
connect for the length of time and transmit the amount of data required by the

The example of a newspaper has already been given. Forums such as these are
often likened to discussions in an auditorium. Who's paying for the auditorium?
If we likened it to a giant conference call, who's paying for the phones and
phone lines (not to mention the long distance)? I'd like to hazard the guess
that there is no form of free speech. Even outdoors you have to pay for or find
the soapbox.

I was on the net in the late '80s early '90s when everything was 'free' and the
greatest accomplishment was connecting through military servers to get a file by
gopher because the speed was so much greater. I remember the amazement and joy
of getting a connection at home that downloaded newsgroup text at a rate faster
than I could read it. (Ahh the incredible speed of 2400 baud) I can remember
thinking, it's amazing I don't have to pay for this. I'm still amazed at how
little the general users have to pay. And I'm grateful to those that continue to
support the system without asking for financial contributions. But, I'm not
going to gripe over some fair cost.

Jeremy, I salute your continued support and your strong convictions over the
'freeness' of framers. But, I'm afraid that everyone who is currently on the
FrameUsers list has subscribed to Brad's list and not the list that was before.
By all means promote FreeFramers and if Brad's way of managing FrameUsers is
truly destructive, his list will fail and FreeFramers will grow.

Now let's all get back to discussing FrameMaker.

Eric L. Dunn

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