Re: Don't Let the Rat Pack Get You Down

[jeremy@xxxxxxxxx (Jeremy H. Griffith)]

On Tue, 10 Nov 1998 14:06:59 +1100, Marcus Carr <mrc@allette.com.au> wrote:

>Dan Emory wrote:
>
>> I am a former active poster to the framers list. I noted that Marcus Carr
>> called you a "kindred spirit" to someone else who also made postings
>> critical of Adobe. He was referring to me. In September, my posting
>> privileges on the FrameUsers list were suspended as a direct outgrowth of
>> posts that were critical of Adobe.
>
>Come on Dan, you know that's not true, don't you? You were suspended for accusing
>the list owner of acting as an unauthorised moderator of the list.

No, Marcus, *you* are not being truthful here.  Tha only "accusation" was
in a *private* post from Dan to Brad, which Brad, in violation of all Net
rules, made public.  Brad in fact never gave *any* reason for suspending
Dan, an act certainly *not* within his rights as list admin of a public list
that long preceded his reign.  IMHO, Dan is correct about the reason.

>> You should know that there is a rat pack of 10-15 Adobe aplogists who
>> respond like trained seals to critical posting like yours. Their purpose is
>> to intimidate you. Don't let them succeed.
>
>See, the funny thing is that Diane and the rest of the list have come to terms with
>a way forward. Your ego prevents you from doing likewise - you seem to crave
>confrontation and aren't interested in anything but kicking Adobe and anyone else
>who disagrees with you. Diane will get answers from the other list, because she was
>willing to meet the rest of the participants halfway.

This crosses the line regarding personal attacks on the list, Marcus.  You
have violated Netiquette yourself in a major way right here.  Dan did not.

>> In late September of this year, a new list, "Free Framers"
>> <framers@omsys.com>, was started as an alternative to the FrameUsers list.
>> There are already 200+ subscribers. Many of us joined because we were fed up
>> with the mismanagement of the FrameUsers list, particularly the way the list
>> owner attempts to suppress the free exchange of ideas (the rat pack being
>> one method).
>
>As I have pointed out in the past, I joined this list for no such reason. I (and
>possibly others) joined in the interest of having maximum coverage of Frame
>discussion. In the event that you include me in your imaginary rat pack, my one and
>only communication with Brad has been to complain about people quoting excessively
>and sending HTML, to which I did not receive a reply. There is no conspiracy - some
>people just don't agree with you.

No-one spoke of a conspiracy.  My original invitation to join this list,
however, clearly laid out a series of improper actions on the part of the
other list admin.  I asked my peers to join me in a discussion of what we
could do to improve the situation.  I was, frankly, astonished when my
private invitation was reposted to the list... and again, at the massive
response to it in the form of subscriptions to *this* list.  Again, Dan
is correct to say that "many of us" joined over Framers mismanagement.
You are an exception, and that is fine; we have moved on from protest to
the active creation of a better alternative, which is just beginning.

>> I strongly suggest you subscribe to the new list. You will find
>> that Free Framers subscribers are usually more receptive to postings such as
>> yours. 
>
>I would also encourage Diane to join this list, for the same reasons that I did.
>Interesting that you used the word "usually" and not "always", but then you've
>recently been found to be too vitriolic for this list as well, haven't you?

Again, Marcus, you are engaging in an inappropriate personal attack here.
Please do not misuse the list in this way.

>I'm getting tired of your games, Dan. You can say and think what you like of me, but
>your fabrication of the facts damages both the credibility of this list and your own
>personal standing. Ultimately, I could see you as the only list member of
>Dan@Dan.com, though I doubt if you'd get on with the owner.

This is a lie.  Dan has *never* fabricated a single fact.  His interpretations
of motives may be different from yours, but he is certainly as entitled to
them as you are.  As list admin here, I must insist that you rise to the level
of honesty and civility required on the Net at large, a level Dan has always
achieved.  I have asked others to look to the future rather than dwell on the
past, and I ask you to do so too.  Thank you for your cooperation.

I would prefer any further discussion on this thread to take place privately,
off list, as it seems to have nothing to offer the group as a whole.  Thanks.

-- Jeremy H. Griffith, at Omni Systems Inc.
  (jeremy@omsys.com)  http://www.omsys.com/

** To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@omsys.com **
** with "unsubscribe framers" (no quotes) in the body.   **