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Re: Enough Already

The thread about Brad Framers going down was initiated by the manager of the
Free Framers list, which certainly establishes it as a relevant topic.

Furthermore, there were several subsequent posts on that same thread by
people other than me (which you didn't challenge as being off-topic)
questioning whether the BradList had actually gone down. My post documented
the facts of the outage as I knew them.

Since Free Framers was launched and supported by people who objected to the
way the old list was mismanaged, it seems to me that new evidence of its
continuing mismanagement is a valid subject for discussion on Free Framers.
My comments regarding Brad's failure to offer any apology or explanation for
the recent lengthy outage were in that vein.

Contrast Brad's attitude with Jeremy's. Jeremy has responded to numerous
posts in which he carefully explains how he is addressing and solving issues
relating to the new list. I believe a list manager, within reason, has an
obligation to do that, and I also firmly believe subscribers should be able
to freely post to any list issues about how the list is managed without
someone suggesting that such comments arise from bearing a "personal
grudge," accusing the person making such comments of having a "personal
problem," or challenging the validity of such topics.

Unlike Brad Framers, issues regarding list management on Free Framers are:

1. Considered to be a valid topic of discussion on the list.

2. Not reacted to by the list owner heaping accusations, vituperation, and
threats on the subscriber.

The comments you complained about in my post did nothing more than take note
of one of the vivid contrast between the two lists, namely the disparate
attitudes of the two list managers when responding to valid issues/questions
regarding how the list is run.

The surprising fact that not one of the 2000 subscribers dared to ask Brad
what caused the recent outage is indicative of something troubling. We
certainly don't want to promote any such reluctance on Free Framers, and if
the purpose of your post was to do so, I hope you will reconsider.

At 03:37 PM 10/16/98 -0400, Debbi Leipold wrote:
>STOP IT!  We all value your technical input but cut this you know what out.
>This list is for technical topics not personal grudges.  You know I am a
>tolerant person but I have reached my limit.  Free framers is free for a
>variety of reasons but keep your personal problems off the list.  If you
>hate it so much unsubscribe.

Dan Emory
Dan Emory & Associates
FrameMaker/FrameMaker+SGML Document Design
and Database Publishing Specialists

Voice/Fax: 949-722-8971
E-Mail: danemory@primenet.com
10044 Adams Ave. #208
Huntington Beach, CA 92646

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