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Re: Apparently Email Forwarding's Usefulness has Sort of Ended

Hello Richard,

Thanks for your more temperate observations this time
around.  Still, you misunderstood what I had to say in
a legion of particulars, so I'll attempt to clear those up here.
My  `discomfiture'  was over having been comprehensively

With Netscape, TEXT attachments may be received inline
if one sets Preferences that way.  This is useful behavior;
I've used Netscape to roll up 54 DOS text chapters of a novel
into one Windows-compatible text file, painlessly, which
thence became a FrameMaker file.

I reported that gambit to Free Framers about a year ago,
and heard back that it worked equally well for turning
a couple hundred recipes into one cookbook file.  By
the way, it also apparently also works with Outlook.

The above applies only to TEXT files.  MSWord, .pdf, .jpg,
.gif, .zip, FrameMaker, Visio, Excel, etc. files always remain as

It's ONLY on Outlook that a forwarded email requires opening
another window to read.  In no way is THAT  `more advanced'
behavior more useful!  Progress??

Netscape Messenger just presents the forwarded email message
below the original message, with its header still intact, and a
translucent line across the page to set it clearly apart.  I may be
one of the last few cavemen on earth still using Netscape Messenger;
but I've found it to be superior to Outlook, Lotus, and other email
programs which I've used in workplaces, particularly in its human
factors and in its ability to manage files comprising many thousands
of email messages.

And I can give you one technical reason  (which obviously doesn't
apply when sending files to Free Framers)  for forwarding:  Doing
so preserves the HEADER information.  I get 1-2 email messages
a day demanding my up-to-date credit card information -- or else
my EarthLink or PayPal or eBay account will be suspended or
closed.  These messages are bogus scam attempts;  normally they're
timestamped several hours or days into the future.  I now have
learned to FORWARD them to  fraud@earthlink.net  or to an
equivalent address for the others -- and also to the Silicon Valley
office of the FBI.  Embedding them does no good whatever in this
case, as I was bluntly informed after the first time that I reported
one of these scam attempts with the scam-attempt message
simply embedded.  The header information is needed in order
to track down the scammer's ISP and shut the scam down.

`PROFOUND AND SCARY'  referred to Cas Tuyn's pithy
observations, and to my quote from Dave Wyland, and not
to my own humbler commentary on each of these.  This
reference got lost after several discussion rounds, which
preserved that subject line but not what it concerned.

Software has taken over much terminology from formal
religion, but I personally balk at the term  `icon.'  As a
sometime marketeer, I prefer  `logo,'  which doesn't call
to mind genuflecting in front of stations of the cross.

My reason for having used forwarding  (a mortal sin that I'll
try to avoid repeating in any future communication with Free
Framers!)  was not   'necessity, choice, or ignorance,'  but
SPEED,  plus clearly setting apart my son Steve's better-
informed observations from my own.  I had no inkling that
my cutting this formatting corner would cause a number of
Framers so simply trash my/Steve's message without
even reading.

Lastly, I submit that it IS a proper subject for discussion on
the Free Framers bulletin board if  (as Cas Tuyn reasons)
Adobe's business model is doomed.  Adobe, and even M$
The Evil Empire, have tried to survive by frantically adding
FEATURES;  cynics refer to this practice as  `software
bloat.'  I personally kept my copies of FrameMaker 5.5.6
when I acquired FrameMaker 7, and still use mostly 5.5.6
which  (in Cas Tuyn's words)  I've found to be  "perfect."
So, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

My son Steve observes that M$ has massive hordes of folks
adding FEATURES to M$ products, but gives only lip service
to such minor issues as SECURITY.  He's in a position to know.

Again,  I'm VERY sorry that the formatting of my original
message may have distracted some Framers from what was
turning into a very spirited and useful debate on the future
(if any)  of the for-profit packaged-software industry, including
Adobe/FrameMaker and M$.  I suggest rereading Cas Tuyn's
original message  (`Framemaker is perfect, therefor it's dead,'
12/5/2003), to get back on track

Chuck Hastings      cwh2@earthlink.net

Vintage Silicon Logic         San Josť and Seattle


Richard Combs wrote:

> Well, since I'm the cause of Chuck's discomfitude, I might as well jump in.
> -- First of all, Chuck, I'm sorry for the spike in blood pressure I caused you. I didn't intend for anyone to make a big deal about my message. What I said was:
> > Chuck Hastings wrote something that arrived with an attachment:
> >
> > <snipped all; deleted message and attachment>
> >
> > This list permits attachments? Now, that's profoundly scary.
> >
> > ;-)
> >
> Notice the "smile and wink" smiley? I wrote this at work, shortly after 6pm Sun., after a long, tiring weekend. It was a bit of silliness; I couldn't resist playing with the wording of the subject line ("PROFOUND AND SCARY OBSERVATIONS"). I wasn't *really* profoundly scared.
> -- Second, every email reader I've used lets you configure it to forward messages either in-line or as attachments (don't know about Netscape 4.79; haven't used Netscape in years).
> Personally, I've never understood why someone would _prefer_ to forward their mail as attachments (forcing recipients to open another window to read), especially for plain text messages. But that's just me...
> Of course, if you don't understand the difference between in-line text and attachments, then I can see why you'd be confused and worried about "Email Forwarding's Usefulness"; I'm sorry I caused you needless concern.
> -- Third, regarding Outlook, you said:
> > Attachments had little logos  (FrameMaker, MSWord,
> > Visio, or whatever), whereas forwarded messages had
> > sort of a plain box thing.  So I can't account why your
> > version of Outlook called a forwarded message an
> > attachment.  Good old Microsoft quality, I guess.
> Outlook does show attachments as "little logos" (they're called icons; the "plain box thing" is an envelope icon) -- _in_the_message_, if you _open_ it. I don't open Framers and Free Framers messages, I read them in the preview pane (they're in their own folder). The message list merely shows that there is an attachment, not its file type.
> There's no Microsoft quality problem here; you forwarded the message _as_an_attachment_. I don't know if the reason is necessity, choice, or ignorance, but that's what you did.
> -- Fourth and finally, I, for one, don't read this list for "a very spirited and serious debate on the future  (if any)  of the for-profit packaged-software industry" -- there are plenty of much better sources for "code wants to be free" rants.
> Nor has this "debate" been very spirited or serious. And I certainly wouldn't use the phrase "PROFOUND AND SCARY OBSERVATIONS" to describe anything you've written or forwarded. Neither adjective applies.
> But that's just me... ;-)
> Richard
> ------
> Richard G. Combs
> Senior Technical Writer
> Voyant Technologies, Inc.
> richardDOTcombs AT voyanttechDOTcom
> 303-223-5111
> ------
> rgcombs AT freeDASHmarketDOTnet
> 303-777-0436
> ------
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