RE: Brad's policies

["Debbi Leipold" <dleipold@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Guys,

I too am uncomfortable with some of Brad's policies and disagree with his
interpretation of  the performanceof his list server; however, this debate
has been going on for years.  Brad is not a bad guy, he is just a bit more
stringent than us old timers would like. That is why jeremy created this
list to which we are free to post and cross post.

The big thing I try to remember is that framers is still a good resource for
many people especaially those that are new to frame (and those like me that
just go brain dead from too many tasks at a time). I tend to use this list
for the more high end questions. Striking against that list hurts those that
need help.  It doesn't bother Brad.  I monitor that list all the time and
mostly reply of list to those that need help.  I monitor this list all the
time but more freely post to it (although I've been swamped lately, new job
managing multiple departments).

So, take a deap breath, help those that need it, and just let it be. I've
been just as angry about it at various times but try to look at the resource
not the management.

Debbi

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-framers@omsys.com [mailto:owner-framers@omsys.com]On Behalf
Of Dan Emory
Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2000 2:36 AM
To: Craig Ede; framers@omsys.com
Subject: Re: Brad's policies


Well said Craig. You are, however, much too charitable toward your
UberFuehrer.
Brad is simply an incompetent fool who is in the unique position of being
able to suppress complaints from his victims--as long as his victims let him
get away with it. Note that he refuses even to list the free framers list as
a resource on his new (and not surprisingly) poorly designed website.
At 08:33 PM 2/29/00 -0600, Craig Ede wrote:
>Hey Brad,
>
>Get a grip, okay? You'll feel a lot better if you just let this unruly
group of muchkins do their thing without a lot of topdown listowner crap.
Dysfunctional group that we are, we still don't need a Enforcer to clean up
our acts for us.
>
>We can all move to free framers after all. Many folks dual post, but a
serious boycott of YOUR frameusers list would make the other list a whole
lot more attractive to people with questions if your established base of
professional users (like Thomas) fled en masse to framers@omsys.com
>
>Dude, you been hangin' inside the beltway too long or somethin'. Doncha
know that the movement is toward LOCAL control. That would mean posters
might get to make their own decisions about appropriateness...and be able to
make a mistake or two.
>
>Heavens to Betsy! What anarchy could come of that? And, yes, this is an
appropriate topic for the list to discuss onlist rather than behind the
scenes.
>
>Dual posted,
>
>Craig
>FUMFTMBIGN... (FrameUser Munchkin For The Moment, But I'm Gettin'
Nervous...)
>Los Jugadores Bazutadores
>"Well I had to move fast, but I couldn't with you around my neck..." B.
Dylan
>
>>>> "Thomas Michanek" <thomas.michanek@telia.com> 02/29/00 07:00PM >>>
>>Careful about criticizing the policies of the management and the
functioning
>>of the services.  Look what it gets you ...
>>----------------
>>... You are welcome to
>>participate if you will abide by the rules.  If you choose not to abide,
>>then appropriate action will be taken.
>>Please do not post test messages or your personal judgements of the
>>list/software/filters to the list--you know the rules, were even reminded
of
>>the rules by the autoresponder, and you still decided to post your
message.
>>Please don't let it happen again.
>
>OK, people, how long are YOU willing to take this???
>IMHO, it's time to consider a joint action against Brad!
>At least we should urge every FrameUser to move to Free Framers.
>Speak up now. If you don't want to "pollute" the list, send an
>email to me and state your point of view.
>Every single list member ought to have an opinion of this.
>
>I, for one, remember the times when "framers" was a community run by
>a nice admin caring about peoples' opinions, ideas and criticism,
>and changed the list accordingly. The admin didn't "own" the list,
>didn't kick people off the list, didn't threaten them, and didn't
>run the list like a dictator. The times are a-changing, aren't they?
>
>Pissed off,
>
>- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>Thomas Michanek, [Michagon], Linkoping, Sweden
>Documentation Consultant, FrameMaker/UNIX expert
>EMAIL:  mailto:Thomas.Michanek@telia.com
>WWW:    http://go.to/framers , or go directly to:
>        http://w1.133.telia.com/~u13304072/framers
>- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>
>
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     ====================
     | Nullius in Verba |
     ====================
Dan Emory, Dan Emory & Associates
FrameMaker/FrameMaker+SGML Document Design & Database Publishing
Voice/Fax: 949-722-8971 E-Mail: danemory@primenet.com
10044 Adams Ave. #208, Huntington Beach, CA 92646
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